Word that Donald Trump has been alerted that he may be indicted for his role in the attempted coup of January 6th is most welcome. As I have said for years, I always doubt whether wealthy, white men will be subject to legal repercussions regarding their myriad crimes until it happens. Trump deserves to be indicted and he deserves to spend the rest of his life paying his numerous debts to society.
I for one hope Trump sees the inside of a prison cell, but that doesn't preclude me from ALSO wanting to see every member of the Sedition Caucus there beside him, along with all the donors, event coordinators, and lawyers who were active supporters of a coup.
Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and Michael Flynn represent the tip of the spear and we're never even mentioned in the article! There's so much rot involved impossible to comprehend. Sheldon Whitehouse is busy at the Senate trying to do the good work of the American people in regards to putting light on the shadows. Thanks for doing the same in the journalistic sphere. Finally some in the media are starting to point in that direction. Case in point the conversation between former Washington Post editor and Ruth Ben-Ghiat regarding media's role in saving democracy
Correct. Trump is the best foil these guys could have hoped for. They couldn't have invented anything better if they had tried. We cannot keep focusing on Trump...following the shiny bouncing bauble... that leads us away from what is really going on. Thanks, Jared, as always.
In a way, yes. But only in that terrible despicable people are easily manipulated into doing what they basically want to do and have done their whole lives.
There are horrible things Trump did that can be seen as just a logical extension of where the Republican Party has always been (the racism and misogyny, for example.) But this business of denying you lost an election and the "Stop the Steal" nonsense is all novel, it's an invention of Trump, it wasn't a tradition within the Republican party before he came along. Now that he's introduced it, you see some Republicans (like Kerri Lake) trying it out but it doesn't look like it's going to catch on because nobody seems to be having any success with it.
I say this because I agree that convicting Trump doesn't end our fascism problem, not by a long shot, but convicting Trump on this one thing would pretty effectively nail down the coffin lid on this one particular tactic.
It didn’t start with Trump. The words were different (shut it down vs stop the steal), but the driving force was the same with the Brooks Brothers Riot. The main difference is that the Brooks Brothers Riot was successful. BTW -- Roger Stone was a key player in the Brooks Brothers Riot, too. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/brooks-brothers-riot/tnamp/
Not making excuses for the Supreme Court or the right-wing operatives involved, but the initial vote count in Florida showed Bush winning, so when he went around saying "I won Florida and I'm President" he wasn't lying. Yes, a later statewide canvass by the NY Times and other media outlets showed Gore won, but Gore himself never asked for a statewide recount, just a recount in those precincts where the recount was expected to help Gore (a fact that was useful to a right-wing court intent on stopping any recount at all.)
So there's a common thread in "Do whatever it takes to win*", but losing a state by tens of thousands of votes and claiming it was all fraudulent and you really won has only been done by Donald J. Trump. And looking at his lack of success and current legal problems, I'm pretty confident it will only ever be done by Donald J. Trump.
*You might say there was an unspoken addendum: "But only if it's within stealing distance" and Trump's novel idea was to take that part off.
You’re not wrong, but remember that the “Brooks Brothers Riot” was about trying to give the appearance of some organic, voter-led “stop the count” movement. Stop the count, stop the steal, all comes from the same “only we deserve power” place.
Yes, that's true. Trump's initial demand, made in that unhinged speech on election night, was to stop ALL vote-counting IMMEDIATELY. Judging from Bush v. Gore, I'd say the right-wingers have the power to stop a recount, but they don't (yet) have the power to stop the counting of votes in the first place. Bush v. Gore showed all sorts of undemocratic shenanigans are possible, but you do have to at the very least be ahead in the initial count.
Did we ever have armed insurrections, thefts of classified documents, tax fraud, sex offenses et al with a president committing them? Not in my lifetime. The worst we had in my 66 years was Nixon. Every day I hope Trump dies. He is the head of the snake, the godfather all the minions rally around.
I agree that assuming that putting trump and his minions in jail will allow the continuing efforts of the super rich to establish an authoritarian state to continue is true. But if this happens there is no doubt it will be a victory in this battle and winning battles in a war is part of winning the war. Yes it’s a victory of the neo-liberal side but at least it’s better than the fascist side. What we need to take this victory forward is for a new generation of non-neo/liberal democrats to create a social democracy.
I can't see why real billionaires (as opposed to people who play billionaires on TV like Donald Trump) would care that much. They know they'll be fine if it's Biden, and then eventually the Republicans get back in and then it's even better for them. The people I'm aware of who had money and supported the Jan. 6 insurrection (you mentioned the My Pillow guy, I'd add in the Overstock guy) just look like nuts, not people craftily organizing a serious plan.
You can't see because you're a normal, presumably decent human being and not a myopic, sociopath with a money addiction... who thinks their net worth gaining a few MORE lifetime's worth of money is ultimately more important than things like other people's livelihoods, health, and happiness, or even things like the larger long term economy, the stability of our society, and the continuance of a functional democracy.
Some of these guys think they actually *deserve* by some rationalization of misplaced merit to be in control of everything and everyone, democracy be damned. "He who has the money makes the rules."
Well, when I look at where the serious billionaire money is going, it's to things like the Federalist Society and fancy vacations for Thomas and Alito, and all the state-level policy shops that produce so much horrible legislation that gets photocopied from one state legislature to another. One of the advantages of being a billionaire is you don't need to break the law to get what you want, because you MAKE the laws. That's been going on for decades and it's all been tremendously successful, no need to bother with some loony scheme dreamed up by law-school C-students when you've got the best lawyers in the country with a solid plan that's working for you.
I’m amazed that the puppet masters behind Trump and MAGA have taken this long to allow Trump to be taken down. I think their problem has been that Trump so thoroughly hog-tied the Republican Party that there is no obvious replacement for him. And that allowing Trump’s demise (by any method) might truly set off Armageddon in America. And that would...inconvenience the wealthy and perhaps even endanger them.
Sorry, but anonymous billionaires has the same ring to it as the Elders of Zion. Why can’t you name names? Not all of them are billionaires. Sure, there’s Peter Thiel and his ilk. But there are bundlers like the Heritage Foundation and Steve Miller and Steve Bannon. Give us names so we can track their every move. An anonymous cabal of billionaires won’t cut it.
I'm skeptical, if any A-list billionaires were really behind this, why did they have Sidney Powell leading the legal team? Seems like someone in a sudden fit of generosity would have made a $100 million donation to the Michael J. Luttig Foundation.
I for one hope Trump sees the inside of a prison cell, but that doesn't preclude me from ALSO wanting to see every member of the Sedition Caucus there beside him, along with all the donors, event coordinators, and lawyers who were active supporters of a coup.
were and still are. we're gonna need a bigger boat.
Amen, sister! Truer words have never been spoken!
Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and Michael Flynn represent the tip of the spear and we're never even mentioned in the article! There's so much rot involved impossible to comprehend. Sheldon Whitehouse is busy at the Senate trying to do the good work of the American people in regards to putting light on the shadows. Thanks for doing the same in the journalistic sphere. Finally some in the media are starting to point in that direction. Case in point the conversation between former Washington Post editor and Ruth Ben-Ghiat regarding media's role in saving democracy
Correct. Trump is the best foil these guys could have hoped for. They couldn't have invented anything better if they had tried. We cannot keep focusing on Trump...following the shiny bouncing bauble... that leads us away from what is really going on. Thanks, Jared, as always.
So, trump may actually be a victim of sorts, being used by the wealthy corporate masters who wish to remain in the shadows.
In a way, yes. But only in that terrible despicable people are easily manipulated into doing what they basically want to do and have done their whole lives.
Awww, poor thing.
There are horrible things Trump did that can be seen as just a logical extension of where the Republican Party has always been (the racism and misogyny, for example.) But this business of denying you lost an election and the "Stop the Steal" nonsense is all novel, it's an invention of Trump, it wasn't a tradition within the Republican party before he came along. Now that he's introduced it, you see some Republicans (like Kerri Lake) trying it out but it doesn't look like it's going to catch on because nobody seems to be having any success with it.
I say this because I agree that convicting Trump doesn't end our fascism problem, not by a long shot, but convicting Trump on this one thing would pretty effectively nail down the coffin lid on this one particular tactic.
It didn’t start with Trump. The words were different (shut it down vs stop the steal), but the driving force was the same with the Brooks Brothers Riot. The main difference is that the Brooks Brothers Riot was successful. BTW -- Roger Stone was a key player in the Brooks Brothers Riot, too. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/brooks-brothers-riot/tnamp/
Not making excuses for the Supreme Court or the right-wing operatives involved, but the initial vote count in Florida showed Bush winning, so when he went around saying "I won Florida and I'm President" he wasn't lying. Yes, a later statewide canvass by the NY Times and other media outlets showed Gore won, but Gore himself never asked for a statewide recount, just a recount in those precincts where the recount was expected to help Gore (a fact that was useful to a right-wing court intent on stopping any recount at all.)
So there's a common thread in "Do whatever it takes to win*", but losing a state by tens of thousands of votes and claiming it was all fraudulent and you really won has only been done by Donald J. Trump. And looking at his lack of success and current legal problems, I'm pretty confident it will only ever be done by Donald J. Trump.
*You might say there was an unspoken addendum: "But only if it's within stealing distance" and Trump's novel idea was to take that part off.
You’re not wrong, but remember that the “Brooks Brothers Riot” was about trying to give the appearance of some organic, voter-led “stop the count” movement. Stop the count, stop the steal, all comes from the same “only we deserve power” place.
Yes, that's true. Trump's initial demand, made in that unhinged speech on election night, was to stop ALL vote-counting IMMEDIATELY. Judging from Bush v. Gore, I'd say the right-wingers have the power to stop a recount, but they don't (yet) have the power to stop the counting of votes in the first place. Bush v. Gore showed all sorts of undemocratic shenanigans are possible, but you do have to at the very least be ahead in the initial count.
Did we ever have armed insurrections, thefts of classified documents, tax fraud, sex offenses et al with a president committing them? Not in my lifetime. The worst we had in my 66 years was Nixon. Every day I hope Trump dies. He is the head of the snake, the godfather all the minions rally around.
I agree that assuming that putting trump and his minions in jail will allow the continuing efforts of the super rich to establish an authoritarian state to continue is true. But if this happens there is no doubt it will be a victory in this battle and winning battles in a war is part of winning the war. Yes it’s a victory of the neo-liberal side but at least it’s better than the fascist side. What we need to take this victory forward is for a new generation of non-neo/liberal democrats to create a social democracy.
I can't see why real billionaires (as opposed to people who play billionaires on TV like Donald Trump) would care that much. They know they'll be fine if it's Biden, and then eventually the Republicans get back in and then it's even better for them. The people I'm aware of who had money and supported the Jan. 6 insurrection (you mentioned the My Pillow guy, I'd add in the Overstock guy) just look like nuts, not people craftily organizing a serious plan.
You can't see because you're a normal, presumably decent human being and not a myopic, sociopath with a money addiction... who thinks their net worth gaining a few MORE lifetime's worth of money is ultimately more important than things like other people's livelihoods, health, and happiness, or even things like the larger long term economy, the stability of our society, and the continuance of a functional democracy.
Some of these guys think they actually *deserve* by some rationalization of misplaced merit to be in control of everything and everyone, democracy be damned. "He who has the money makes the rules."
Well, when I look at where the serious billionaire money is going, it's to things like the Federalist Society and fancy vacations for Thomas and Alito, and all the state-level policy shops that produce so much horrible legislation that gets photocopied from one state legislature to another. One of the advantages of being a billionaire is you don't need to break the law to get what you want, because you MAKE the laws. That's been going on for decades and it's all been tremendously successful, no need to bother with some loony scheme dreamed up by law-school C-students when you've got the best lawyers in the country with a solid plan that's working for you.
I’m amazed that the puppet masters behind Trump and MAGA have taken this long to allow Trump to be taken down. I think their problem has been that Trump so thoroughly hog-tied the Republican Party that there is no obvious replacement for him. And that allowing Trump’s demise (by any method) might truly set off Armageddon in America. And that would...inconvenience the wealthy and perhaps even endanger them.
Sorry, but anonymous billionaires has the same ring to it as the Elders of Zion. Why can’t you name names? Not all of them are billionaires. Sure, there’s Peter Thiel and his ilk. But there are bundlers like the Heritage Foundation and Steve Miller and Steve Bannon. Give us names so we can track their every move. An anonymous cabal of billionaires won’t cut it.
I'm skeptical, if any A-list billionaires were really behind this, why did they have Sidney Powell leading the legal team? Seems like someone in a sudden fit of generosity would have made a $100 million donation to the Michael J. Luttig Foundation.